Im trying to start fruit trees from seed and wondering if you have attempted this and had any success and if so how.? Currently canning my white peach tree harvest for the year. Peach apple sauce. Super tasty. My peach tree currently has maybe a year left if im lucky. Been losing branches the past couple years unfortunately , i now know i need to thin a bit more before its bearing too much weight. Starting from seed or pits ive read to cold set them but i havent had any luck getting anything started. Any advice is appreciated. Trees get pricey, starting to think there is a valid reason for that. Happy canning, keep up the good work!
Yes, you can definitely start trees from seed, especially if you start with locally grown fruit. Apples, pears, quince, etc do not come true to seed and you never know what you're going to get when you plant those. They'll somewhat resemble the parents, but only a little, so it's a gamble (but still worth it, and we have plenty of seedling apples that bare great fruit). More info on growing apples/pears from seed here: https://practicalselfreliance.com/planting-apple-seeds/
Stone fruits, on the other hand, come almost true to seed and the seedlings will be almost exactly like their parents (unless they've managed to hybridize with other types of stone fruits, which does happen, but then you get cherry plums, pluots, etc). That's less common, and only really happens if you have A LOT of different trees right in the same area. Anyhow, those do really well from seed, but there are a couple of tricks:
-Most need cold stratification, meaning you have to either put them in the refrigerator for 6 to 10 weeks before planting (total time depends on the variety). This mimics winter and causes the seed to break dormancy and sprout in "spring." If you have cold winters, you can also plant them outdoors in the autumn and let nature do it for you, but then you have the risk that squirrels will dig them up. More on cold stratification here: https://practicalselfreliance.com/stratify-seeds/
-Second, you need to make sure it's a variety that will grow where you live. Some trees aren't hard in cold climates, and since we're in zone 4, most grocery store stone fruits just won't grow here. The same goes if you're in a warm climate, as some varieties require "chill hours" to fruit. They may grow ok, but they'll never have flower if they don't have enough chill hours in winter. (Ie. Cherries don't fruit in the Mojave, but they'll grow there just fine.) Zone 6 is the most dependable in terms of almost everything growing there, and zone 5 and 7 are pretty good. Anything colder or warmer than that, you have to really watch where the seed came from to make sure it's compatible.
Good luck, and if your seeds aren't germinating, my best guess is lack of cold stratification, or that they dried out too much or too long before they were planted (or not enough, and they molded, it's a tricky balance there with stone fruit).
thank you for your response and your time. We are in a house where we arent sure how long we are going to stay, we own but life changes. You talking about moving hit home with me. At the end of the day, I hope the next person enjoys it and has their eyes and heart open to it. All else fails we need to be the best us we can be and enjoy what God gave us. Thank you for your contribution and help. Ive learned and its nice to rock it out with other people. God bless you and keep you! Peace.
Hi Ashley! I’m an avid reader for a couple of years now and find inspiration often in your posts about your wonderful farm life. We hope to leave Las Vegas next year and be ensconced in our own farmstead somewhere in North Carolina or Kentucky. One of my wine batches from your strawberry recipe will be on the holiday table this year. Thanks for sharing this wonderful information with us. Pati
Wonderful! That strawberry wine is darn tasty, and I hope it turned out well for you! We have friends in North Carolina and they absolutely love it, and I hope you do too =)
I am just starting to get into growing more of our own foods, well vegetables at least. I was considering trying to grow fruit but not sure what I should start with. I live in SC so climate is quite different from Vermont obviously, but if you had to pick just one to start, what would it be? Do you go for something more prolific or just your absolute favorite (I like pretty much everything). Or?
That is a truly excellent question and I've been thinking about how to answer for the past 4 days...it's a really hard one. Since you like just about everything, that makes it a bit simpler, but only a bit.
It really depends on your soil most of all, believe it or not. Even more than your climate. Our soil here is very shallow (12 inches at most, then hardpan clay) and very wet. Apples absolutely hate that...and will just die unless you really go crazy preparing a spot for them (the prep alone takes years).
Cherries, plums, currants, gooseberries, elderberries and such all LOVE that kind of soil and grow like crazy.
Blueberries are picky, and will grow like crazy in light, very fertile and quite acidic soil. They really thrive if it's just like that...or die mostly otherwise. Prep for them also takes years if you don't naturally have that kind of soil.
Honeyberries, on the other hand, don't care at all and grow like weeds (they're a lot more sour than blueberries though, and they really need colder than zone 6/7, so not a great option for you I'd guess).
Given the right conditions, just about anything can be prolific...but soil type and soil preparation is very important.
The main questions you need to think about are:
-What type of soil do you have? (Average "normal" backyard soil with no notable characteristics, sandy soil, clay soil, etc) A soil test helps here, but really, just an eyeball will give you a good idea. What's already growing there? Trees, grass, shrubs, etc.
-How much space do you have? Do you need to pick 1 or two things on a postage stamp sized lot, or do you have a half acre or more to work with?
-How long are you going to be living there (1 year, 10 years or you plan on passing the land onto your grandchildren
Beyond that, let me know what you're trying to choose between and I'll see if I can help narrow it down for you. (We grow probably 50 varieties of fruit/nuts, or something close to it...so there really are a lot of choices out there.)
Thanks so much for your thoughtfulness and generosity with your time. I would describe the available space as being equivalent to 3-4 postage stamps. I would probably limit myself to two things at most, depending of course on which. Space is limited more due to oaks I planted years ago to get some shade in the backyard. There is a lovely sunny strip that runs through the yard east to west so sun is no problem overall. We live in an area of the state that traditionally has grown peaches so an apple tree mile possible. Other than myself, not a lot of peach fans in the house. We have had great success growing Holly bushes, I believe they like acidic soil. I would say we’re on a 10 year plan before it is turned over to the grandson.
Blueberry or raspberries, are in consideration. Apple, fig or pear’s for trees. Open to other ideas certainly. Again, thank you for your time.
Oh my goodness, if you can grow holly, it sounds like you have perfect blueberry soil! That's such a blessing, and I'd exploit that. I'd use that patch of sun for blueberries for sure. There are a lot of varieties, and many do well in warmer climates, so take a look at your growing zone and try to find types suited to that. Up here, there are types that ripen as early as late June, and then others that ripen all the way into late October/early November, so if you do it right you can have probably 4 to 6 months of fresh fruit from 4 to 6 plants in a strip of sun.
We use Epsoma's organic "holly tone" on ours, and with it we've seen huge crops and 12+ inches of new shoot growth in a single season. We don't have good blueberry growing soil here, and we've had to work hard to get them going, but it can be done. It sounds like you'll have an easier time of it, and they produce pretty heavily in 2-3 years if tended well. (Be sure to mulch them heavily, they don't tolerate weedy competition or lawn over them because they have very fine, shallow roots.)
Raspberries also like light, acidic soil like that, but they're less picky than blueberries. They're fully mature at 3 years old, and will even bare small crops in year 1 and 2. Fresh raspberries are SO MUCH BETTER than store bought because they go downhill so quickly, so totally worth it even if you just put in a small patch.
For the shade, you'd be amazed at how much fruit can thrive in shady spots, even full shade. Currants, for example, really thrive in shade and actually die if in full sun. They're not the best for fresh eating, and really do need processing into jam, jelly, wine or juice...but they full of antioxidants.
Keep doing what you excel at. It is all interesting and useful. I save most of your posts to my organized
Pinterest account under broad personal interest categories, and pins as sub-categories for future reference and use your detailed explanations to solve issues or questions as they come up. Most of your posts end up in several boards or pins because of the detail and reasoning you include
I have Diane Devereaux pressure canner cookbook and occasionally go on her website. I just found that she has a new recipe for dry canning potatoes. I have seen this before but wasn't sure it was safe. She says she had her jars tested and they came up good. Any thoughts on that? I would really like to try it. Also wondered if you have any recipes for canning crab apples? I have some to deal with. Thanks.
So Diane Devereaux is really active with the rebel canner group, and she advocates canning all manner of things that aren't rigorously tested. That doesn't mean they don't work, it just means they haven't been tested enough to ensure safety every time. I do have her books, and they have a lot of great recipes in them, but sometimes you need to do your own research in terms of safety with her stuff.
I am familiar with the tests she did with that jar of dry canned potatoes, and I even saw a copy of her results. She did can them without liquid and then waited many months and then had that jar tested. They were negative for botulism, which is awesome...but it doesn't prove that they'd always be.
The thing is, if botulism spores weren't present to start with...then of course they'd be negative. Botulism isn't everywhere, though it can be, so unless she actually put botulism spores in the jar before canning it...that's not a meaningful test. It could be completely safe, or it could not be, given how her test was run it means THAT JAR was safe...but says nothing about the practice in general.
Claiming that since a single jar came out fine in testing that the practice is safe really isn't correct.
It's a tricky thing. Had her jar come out contaminated it would have proved it was NOT SAFE, because even once it not working is enough to disprove a technique. On the other hand, it working once without knowing if there was actually any spores present in the jar doesn't prove it always works.
To actually test it, you'd have to purposefully contaminate the jar and then prove that it all was killed in the canning process. Beyond that, you'd have to do it in a repeatable way, and test it several times, all with intentionally contaminated jars. A single random jar, with no way to know if it had spores in it to begin with, doesn't actually prove anything.
So...short answer...it's totally possible that dry canning potatoes is safe, but at this point, there's not accurate and thorough testing to ensure safety there. I wouldn't do it.
I hadn't thought of actually putting botulism in the jars to test if it kills it but that does make sense. I haven't canned potatoes before except in soups and I was always afraid they would get mushy with water but I will try that this year and see if we like them. It's always a job keeping potatoes in their boxes through the winter in our garage. I was hoping when they get too soft to turn to the canned ones. Thank you so much for your input. I was a bit nervous about the dry canning. I'm a bit of a rebel but not with pressure canning.
Good vendors and they've been around forever. I got my Black Australorps from them and it worked out great. Local would be better though and, if you go, I hope we get a field trip report!
Cool! Thanks for taking the time. I've ordered from Murray McMurray in the past and it's always worked out. They're in the top tier relative to expense but they have a great selection. I raised a flock of Black Australorps when I had the off grid log cabin in the woods. Heavy breed, champion egg layers, sweet dispositions, very motherly when new chicks are introduced. Local purchase would be better though and I hope you have a field trip report when you go to Vermont's chick farm.
Will definitely have a field trip report when/if we get some locally next year. My kids are especially excited about a really colorful rainbow of eggs, so we're trying to get all the colors possible into the flock...that means a lot of different breeds...and some really rare ones if you want pink eggs, green eggs, etc.
I already asked a question, but I have another quick one. I just finished pressure-canning beets and some of the liquid leeched out of the jar in to the pressure canner. A good seal was established, but should I worry about it? The jars in this batch still have beets packed firmly at the 1" headspace point, but the liquid in one jar particularly is down about 2 inches. In your opinion (not asking for promises here) toss or keep and asses at opening?
Down 2 inches isn't a problem at all, and that does sometimes happen with pressure canning vegetables like that. To prevent it in the future, try tightening the rings on jars a bit more and waiting until the canner is all the way cool before removing the jars.
Safety wise, they're fine according to the national center for food preservation, so long as they're sealed and they aren't below the half way mark with liquid in the jar. Use those jars first, as anything above the liquid line will darken and oxidize over time and will degrade in quality faster.
If they did lose more than half the liquid, those should go in the fridge and be used up in a few days. If they're just down an extra inch though, and still sealed, the consensus from the experts is they're fine.
Thank you Ashley! I was gearing up to use my pressure cooker and read in a new canning book that I should have the pressure gauge checked annually. It was my mom’s and I’ve used it for years without checking the gauge. I’m torn because I want to use it and now is the time. What are your thoughts on this?
It's definitely one of those things you're supposed to do, and I'll also admit I have not once done it with mine. In my particular case, we're at just barely over 1,000 feet in elevation, and it's a weighted gugage so I can everything at 15 pounds pressure because once you go over 1,000 feet with those you have to jump all the way up to 15 pounds. That's plenty even if we were many thousands of feet higher, so if mine is under by a small amount then it's not a big deal. (If it were under by a lot, I'd still be in trouble, but that's a pretty big error bar.)
I should get it checked, but somehow it never seems to happen. I bet that's the case with a lot of canners, so you're really not alone here.
The fact that it's your moms and it's older makes me worry a bit more than my relatively new one. I'm honestly not sure what I'd do, but I think you should trust your gut. If it makes you feel nervous, don't use it. If you have a relatively high tolerance for risk, go for it.
Hi Ashley, I’ve got tons of Aronia Berries (have 4, 5ft tall bushes) and was going to try to find out what you do with them. Can some be put in the Harvest Right? I need to buy a pressure cooker (juice). I was thinking jams or jellies. My freezer is packed! How do you store flour and how long does it last? My Zester Apple Tree is not doing well. It doesn’t have many leaves and there is a light colored fungus on the bark. I am so disappointed my Valiant grape that I thought I’d be getting grapes from this year has phylloxera and apparently there is no cure and not one grape on the 20 ft vine😔! I live in N WI. Help…Thanks, Kay
Yes, aronia can go in a harvest right, they're VERY juicy with almost no pectin, so they'll be very light little puff balls once freeze dried.
You don't need a pressure cooker for aronia juice, you can do that easily right on the stovetop. Just add a bit of water to get it started, then turn on the heat and mash with a potato masher. They'll fall apart and you can strain through cheesecloth. There's almost nothing to them structurally, and the juice yield is very high that way.
Aronia makes very good jelly, but you can also can the juice as it is.
Flour does great in 5 gallon buckets with gamma seals in large quantities, or 1/2 gallon mason jars for smaller amounts. You should freeze the flour for 3 days before storing because the freezing process kills any eggs from flour bugs that might be in it.
We've luckily not had to deal with many disease or pest issues with trees, bushes and grapes. That is definitly not my field of expertise. The only thing that kills ours is our shallow clay soils in years when we get too much rain. Somehow bugs and disease have skipped us for the most part, and I'm not complaining there!
Thank you so much, I didn’t know that I could can Aronia Juice in a water bath. How long? What can I do with the dried berries besides eating. Will 4c of berries equal 4c of juice? I am going to start with a small batch first so wondering how many berries to put in the pot? (4 half pint jars?) Also, I could not find the recipe for the cough syrup on your website? Where can I buy one of those Blickies used to pick berries, got tons. Could not find on the net. Thank you for your patience with us beginners. You are very much appreciated! K
Aronia doesn't have any official canning guidance (yet) in publications, but it's going through the final testing right now to be added to the USDA's list of acceptable canning things for commercial sale. In the meantime, the extension services are saying it's fine for home canning (just not approved for sale at markets if home canned). The juice ranges in ph from 3.8 to 4.2, which is well below the 4.6 line for safe canning. (source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5068402/)
The juice yield is going to vary, as some of the berries are much dryer than others. You'd extract the juice like you would for making jelly, take a look at my blackberry jelly recipe for guidance there: https://practicalselfreliance.com/blackberry-jelly/
If you're making jelly, the fruit has absolutely no pectin, so you'd have to use a recipe that assumes no pectin. A good place to start is my dandelion jelly recipe, which would be similar consistency: https://practicalselfreliance.com/dandelion-jelly/
If you want to be extra cautious, which I would be since the testing is not officially finalized, you can add 1 tablespoon of bottled lemon juice to each pint of juice. That's what you do with things that are borderline on acidity, like elderberry juice which isn't quite acidic enough for canning (but it's close). In that case, you'd be covered even if there's a wider variation in aronia ph than perviously thought (which is possible).
Anyhow, that's what I'd suggest, juicing them like a jelly recipe with a bit of water in a pot, straining, and measuing your yield. Add 1 tbsp lemon juice per 2 cups (pint) of juice.
Sources I can see from the extension recommend processing them like you would for other types of berries, like blueberries. In that case, you'd use these recipes:
I don't have yield information for you on these, as I have juiced them...but I didn't write it down sadly. If we get a good crop this year I'll write up specific recipes for this, as there's clearly not a lot of information on the internet at the moment.
This is so hard to answer because every single kid is so incredibly different, and I can't even imagine what it's like to be a classroom teacher and deal with all those differing needs. When/if you have kids on hand all day, it becomes apparent really quickly that each and every one is their own person, and what you think would be hard to do/teach turns out not to be the case at all often enough.
Soft skills like socializing/teamwork are the hardest for us honestly. We do play dates, beach days, play at the park, sports, gymnastics, riding lessons with a group, 4H...really anything that seems like it might work and might keep them engaged. Nothing's the perfect fit, and we're still working on finding something that is.
The "hard skills" that are traditionally looked at as tricky for most kids are pretty natural to my kids, my daughter loves high school chemistry, my son is all about multiplication/division...and they're really young. Other things you'd think would be easy are not. You never know what's going to be hard until you meet the kid.
We mostly try to incorporate "school" into everything we're doing. On car rides to the grocery store we'll do "math" time where we just bounce around and take turns on a continuous math problem.
Me: 7 + 9 =
Them: 16, divided by 2
Me: 8, times 3
Them: 24, plus 5
etc.
We're technically oriented people though, and a discussion of literature or ethics or whatever in the car would be harder than the "hard" skills.
Reading happens continuously, chemistry happens in the kitchen, physics in the yard, things like that.
I think the hardest part is avoiding what people these days label as "demand avoidance" or making mandatory school time that becomes painful or a chore, where you have kids just flat refusing to participate. Literally I'll walk to the table and start working on something, and they'll join in...rather than me saying, "It's school time, get to work!"
At least that's what's working here...right now....with these kids. Next week, who knows. It's all hard, and ever changing.
That's an awesome place to start for us. I love the gamification aspect especially. It seems like you're doing a great job of keeping curiosity alive and that's what it's about. Thanks for taking the time!
I’m in Western NY and typically would be canning to preserve the summers bounty but not solely depending on it to feed my family. I do Meals In a jar as well as pickles, pie fillings, beans, corn, tomatoes in every way you can think of, some jams and jellies and whatever else I can think of or that comes my way. I love to dehydrate fruit and veggies but would normally do a couple Qts of each. This year however I am concerned about the looming food shortages. My preservation will change to reflect the need for longer storage. Mylar bags and oxygen absorbers will store my dehydrated foods. We are buying a cow and will freeze some but a lot I will pressure can either as meals or simple as is, eg, ground beef, etc. I don’t want to depend on the freezer for obvious reasons. I have 5 gal buckets to be filled with essentials like flour, sugar, oats and rice. I would love a Harvest Right but they are so expensive, will take a long time to be delivered and I’m not sure if I’ll need it in 5 years. What am I missing, what else should I be doing ?
It sounds like you're right on track to me! Not depending on the freezer is exactly right, and lot of people learn that one the hard way. Many of the roasts are truly exceptional pressure canned, especially chuck roast.
The harvest rights are expensive for sure, and time will tell whether or not it works out. We've got a batch to start today and I plant run mine basically 24/7 all winter putting up pre-cooked meals for next summer so we don't have to heat up the house (or worry about cooking during the busy time of year) and then run it all summer with produce.
I think if food shortages do happen, they won't happen alone. If you're an electrical lineman and you don't have food for your family, you're less worried about the money you'd get going to work and more worried about reality. Things will get dropped, other services will stop, so I'd start thinking about things beyond food (once you have food buttoned up). Good luck!
I'm having a unique summer because I had foot surgery and I'm laid up. My next canning project will be prepping tomatoes to simmer in crock pots for several days to make sauce. I'd love to hear from others about ways to prep for winter, despite being limited physically. :)
That's a tricky one, especially when canning often means standing in front of a stove for many hours at a time. Last I was hurt, I took up crochet and then the time after that hand spinning, and then I tried hooked rugs. It's not directly "prepping for winter" but in many senses, learning a new sedentary task you can do on your lap is more useful in the long run than killing yourself putting things in jars when you're hurt. Take care of yourself!
I think quite a while back you mentioned you buy canning lids in bulk. I've been looking at them on Amazon (like this one: https://www.amazon.ca/Jsondudu-Split-Type-Rust-Proof-Material-Airtight/dp/B09BFW67K6/ ) and they all seem to have a bunch of one-star reviews about how they buckle or don't seal properly and the food is wasted. What's been your experience with bulk lids? Do you have a trusted brand? I can't seem to find bulk from a trusted brand like Bernardin (Canadian equivalent of Ball).
Good question. Before canning lids became scarce in 2020 I bought several full cases of canning lids. It's literally a flat with 36 boxes of ball brand canning lids, and at the time they were a great deal. Basically wholesale prices, as they could be sold by the box at a store after...since they were packed for resale by the dozen.
I actually haven't bought canning lids since, so I haven't had to deal with all the quality and availability issues that have happened since. I'm down to about half a case of each wide mouth and regular mouth, so maybe 12 boxes of each left...and I'll have to buy lids again soon, so I just started looking into this.
They do still have the "case pack" on amazon, at least for regular mouth jars, and at current prices they work out to $3.88 a box. I have no idea how that compares to current prices after inflation and such. Link here: https://www.amazon.com/Regular-Canning-Mason-Dozen-Total/dp/B00B9GD7I6
I've heard that the bulk sleeves of lids they sell on Lehmans are good quality, but I haven't used those. Searching their site just now, a single box of ball canning lids is $7, so the bulk pack I link to above might not be a bad price if that's the going rate.
I've also heard great things about the reusable lids from Harvest Guard (https://canninglids.com/shop/#selfreliance) but since I've had so many lids on hand, I haven't tried them out yet. I just put in an order with them a minute ago, given that I am close to running out. We'll see how reusable lids go!
Thank you! I will dig deeper! Canning lids don't seem too scarce here in Canada, but at about $4.50 CAD for a box of 12 lids, I'm always on the lookout for a cheaper option.
I was about to ask what you do with thimbleberries since they are pretty dry.
But saw this post about lids. I bought the Lehman's lids, a sleeve of 60, for a very good price last year. I was skeptical because they are sturdier than the ball lids. That said, they work just as well. I find you're never sure what you're going to get from Amazon.
I know you're not supposed to, but I reuse lids all the time...as long as they are free from rust. You may need to roll the edge along a work surface to smooth any pulls from an opener.
We made thimbleberry jam this year, and yes...they're very dry, and quite seedy. I actually found that a lot of the really nuanced flavor goes away when you cook them, and there are just so darn many seeds. I am going to try jelly next, hopefully that'll be better, at least for the seeds.
With our remaining crop in the fridge, I'm making thimbleberry ice cream as dry fruits actually work out really well in ice cream. Less excess moisture, so a creamier finished product...and since they're not cooked I'm hoping they'll retain their strong flavor. We'll see...
Im trying to start fruit trees from seed and wondering if you have attempted this and had any success and if so how.? Currently canning my white peach tree harvest for the year. Peach apple sauce. Super tasty. My peach tree currently has maybe a year left if im lucky. Been losing branches the past couple years unfortunately , i now know i need to thin a bit more before its bearing too much weight. Starting from seed or pits ive read to cold set them but i havent had any luck getting anything started. Any advice is appreciated. Trees get pricey, starting to think there is a valid reason for that. Happy canning, keep up the good work!
Yes, you can definitely start trees from seed, especially if you start with locally grown fruit. Apples, pears, quince, etc do not come true to seed and you never know what you're going to get when you plant those. They'll somewhat resemble the parents, but only a little, so it's a gamble (but still worth it, and we have plenty of seedling apples that bare great fruit). More info on growing apples/pears from seed here: https://practicalselfreliance.com/planting-apple-seeds/
Stone fruits, on the other hand, come almost true to seed and the seedlings will be almost exactly like their parents (unless they've managed to hybridize with other types of stone fruits, which does happen, but then you get cherry plums, pluots, etc). That's less common, and only really happens if you have A LOT of different trees right in the same area. Anyhow, those do really well from seed, but there are a couple of tricks:
-Most need cold stratification, meaning you have to either put them in the refrigerator for 6 to 10 weeks before planting (total time depends on the variety). This mimics winter and causes the seed to break dormancy and sprout in "spring." If you have cold winters, you can also plant them outdoors in the autumn and let nature do it for you, but then you have the risk that squirrels will dig them up. More on cold stratification here: https://practicalselfreliance.com/stratify-seeds/
-Second, you need to make sure it's a variety that will grow where you live. Some trees aren't hard in cold climates, and since we're in zone 4, most grocery store stone fruits just won't grow here. The same goes if you're in a warm climate, as some varieties require "chill hours" to fruit. They may grow ok, but they'll never have flower if they don't have enough chill hours in winter. (Ie. Cherries don't fruit in the Mojave, but they'll grow there just fine.) Zone 6 is the most dependable in terms of almost everything growing there, and zone 5 and 7 are pretty good. Anything colder or warmer than that, you have to really watch where the seed came from to make sure it's compatible.
Good luck, and if your seeds aren't germinating, my best guess is lack of cold stratification, or that they dried out too much or too long before they were planted (or not enough, and they molded, it's a tricky balance there with stone fruit).
thank you for your response and your time. We are in a house where we arent sure how long we are going to stay, we own but life changes. You talking about moving hit home with me. At the end of the day, I hope the next person enjoys it and has their eyes and heart open to it. All else fails we need to be the best us we can be and enjoy what God gave us. Thank you for your contribution and help. Ive learned and its nice to rock it out with other people. God bless you and keep you! Peace.
Hi Ashley! I’m an avid reader for a couple of years now and find inspiration often in your posts about your wonderful farm life. We hope to leave Las Vegas next year and be ensconced in our own farmstead somewhere in North Carolina or Kentucky. One of my wine batches from your strawberry recipe will be on the holiday table this year. Thanks for sharing this wonderful information with us. Pati
Wonderful! That strawberry wine is darn tasty, and I hope it turned out well for you! We have friends in North Carolina and they absolutely love it, and I hope you do too =)
I am just starting to get into growing more of our own foods, well vegetables at least. I was considering trying to grow fruit but not sure what I should start with. I live in SC so climate is quite different from Vermont obviously, but if you had to pick just one to start, what would it be? Do you go for something more prolific or just your absolute favorite (I like pretty much everything). Or?
That is a truly excellent question and I've been thinking about how to answer for the past 4 days...it's a really hard one. Since you like just about everything, that makes it a bit simpler, but only a bit.
It really depends on your soil most of all, believe it or not. Even more than your climate. Our soil here is very shallow (12 inches at most, then hardpan clay) and very wet. Apples absolutely hate that...and will just die unless you really go crazy preparing a spot for them (the prep alone takes years).
Cherries, plums, currants, gooseberries, elderberries and such all LOVE that kind of soil and grow like crazy.
Blueberries are picky, and will grow like crazy in light, very fertile and quite acidic soil. They really thrive if it's just like that...or die mostly otherwise. Prep for them also takes years if you don't naturally have that kind of soil.
Honeyberries, on the other hand, don't care at all and grow like weeds (they're a lot more sour than blueberries though, and they really need colder than zone 6/7, so not a great option for you I'd guess).
Given the right conditions, just about anything can be prolific...but soil type and soil preparation is very important.
The main questions you need to think about are:
-What type of soil do you have? (Average "normal" backyard soil with no notable characteristics, sandy soil, clay soil, etc) A soil test helps here, but really, just an eyeball will give you a good idea. What's already growing there? Trees, grass, shrubs, etc.
-How much space do you have? Do you need to pick 1 or two things on a postage stamp sized lot, or do you have a half acre or more to work with?
-How long are you going to be living there (1 year, 10 years or you plan on passing the land onto your grandchildren
Beyond that, let me know what you're trying to choose between and I'll see if I can help narrow it down for you. (We grow probably 50 varieties of fruit/nuts, or something close to it...so there really are a lot of choices out there.)
Thanks so much for your thoughtfulness and generosity with your time. I would describe the available space as being equivalent to 3-4 postage stamps. I would probably limit myself to two things at most, depending of course on which. Space is limited more due to oaks I planted years ago to get some shade in the backyard. There is a lovely sunny strip that runs through the yard east to west so sun is no problem overall. We live in an area of the state that traditionally has grown peaches so an apple tree mile possible. Other than myself, not a lot of peach fans in the house. We have had great success growing Holly bushes, I believe they like acidic soil. I would say we’re on a 10 year plan before it is turned over to the grandson.
Blueberry or raspberries, are in consideration. Apple, fig or pear’s for trees. Open to other ideas certainly. Again, thank you for your time.
Oh my goodness, if you can grow holly, it sounds like you have perfect blueberry soil! That's such a blessing, and I'd exploit that. I'd use that patch of sun for blueberries for sure. There are a lot of varieties, and many do well in warmer climates, so take a look at your growing zone and try to find types suited to that. Up here, there are types that ripen as early as late June, and then others that ripen all the way into late October/early November, so if you do it right you can have probably 4 to 6 months of fresh fruit from 4 to 6 plants in a strip of sun.
We use Epsoma's organic "holly tone" on ours, and with it we've seen huge crops and 12+ inches of new shoot growth in a single season. We don't have good blueberry growing soil here, and we've had to work hard to get them going, but it can be done. It sounds like you'll have an easier time of it, and they produce pretty heavily in 2-3 years if tended well. (Be sure to mulch them heavily, they don't tolerate weedy competition or lawn over them because they have very fine, shallow roots.)
Raspberries also like light, acidic soil like that, but they're less picky than blueberries. They're fully mature at 3 years old, and will even bare small crops in year 1 and 2. Fresh raspberries are SO MUCH BETTER than store bought because they go downhill so quickly, so totally worth it even if you just put in a small patch.
For the shade, you'd be amazed at how much fruit can thrive in shady spots, even full shade. Currants, for example, really thrive in shade and actually die if in full sun. They're not the best for fresh eating, and really do need processing into jam, jelly, wine or juice...but they full of antioxidants.
Good luck!
Keep doing what you excel at. It is all interesting and useful. I save most of your posts to my organized
Pinterest account under broad personal interest categories, and pins as sub-categories for future reference and use your detailed explanations to solve issues or questions as they come up. Most of your posts end up in several boards or pins because of the detail and reasoning you include
Thank you so much!
I have Diane Devereaux pressure canner cookbook and occasionally go on her website. I just found that she has a new recipe for dry canning potatoes. I have seen this before but wasn't sure it was safe. She says she had her jars tested and they came up good. Any thoughts on that? I would really like to try it. Also wondered if you have any recipes for canning crab apples? I have some to deal with. Thanks.
So Diane Devereaux is really active with the rebel canner group, and she advocates canning all manner of things that aren't rigorously tested. That doesn't mean they don't work, it just means they haven't been tested enough to ensure safety every time. I do have her books, and they have a lot of great recipes in them, but sometimes you need to do your own research in terms of safety with her stuff.
I am familiar with the tests she did with that jar of dry canned potatoes, and I even saw a copy of her results. She did can them without liquid and then waited many months and then had that jar tested. They were negative for botulism, which is awesome...but it doesn't prove that they'd always be.
The thing is, if botulism spores weren't present to start with...then of course they'd be negative. Botulism isn't everywhere, though it can be, so unless she actually put botulism spores in the jar before canning it...that's not a meaningful test. It could be completely safe, or it could not be, given how her test was run it means THAT JAR was safe...but says nothing about the practice in general.
Claiming that since a single jar came out fine in testing that the practice is safe really isn't correct.
It's a tricky thing. Had her jar come out contaminated it would have proved it was NOT SAFE, because even once it not working is enough to disprove a technique. On the other hand, it working once without knowing if there was actually any spores present in the jar doesn't prove it always works.
To actually test it, you'd have to purposefully contaminate the jar and then prove that it all was killed in the canning process. Beyond that, you'd have to do it in a repeatable way, and test it several times, all with intentionally contaminated jars. A single random jar, with no way to know if it had spores in it to begin with, doesn't actually prove anything.
So...short answer...it's totally possible that dry canning potatoes is safe, but at this point, there's not accurate and thorough testing to ensure safety there. I wouldn't do it.
I hadn't thought of actually putting botulism in the jars to test if it kills it but that does make sense. I haven't canned potatoes before except in soups and I was always afraid they would get mushy with water but I will try that this year and see if we like them. It's always a job keeping potatoes in their boxes through the winter in our garage. I was hoping when they get too soft to turn to the canned ones. Thank you so much for your input. I was a bit nervous about the dry canning. I'm a bit of a rebel but not with pressure canning.
I’ve been collecting elderberries and freezing them for later use. Possibly will make your elderberry wine or a jam.
I love the dandelion mead. So glad you suggested it.
Other then that I have been enjoying floral bouquets from my gardens and fields.
Making compost of course and I’ve planted some more bean, radish and lettuce seeds for fall harvesting.
Lovely!
Good vendors and they've been around forever. I got my Black Australorps from them and it worked out great. Local would be better though and, if you go, I hope we get a field trip report!
Cool! Thanks for taking the time. I've ordered from Murray McMurray in the past and it's always worked out. They're in the top tier relative to expense but they have a great selection. I raised a flock of Black Australorps when I had the off grid log cabin in the woods. Heavy breed, champion egg layers, sweet dispositions, very motherly when new chicks are introduced. Local purchase would be better though and I hope you have a field trip report when you go to Vermont's chick farm.
Will definitely have a field trip report when/if we get some locally next year. My kids are especially excited about a really colorful rainbow of eggs, so we're trying to get all the colors possible into the flock...that means a lot of different breeds...and some really rare ones if you want pink eggs, green eggs, etc.
Well, just found answers on your website under fruit vinegar. Being are an extremely busy bee, you don't need to respond now. Thanks for the info!
I already asked a question, but I have another quick one. I just finished pressure-canning beets and some of the liquid leeched out of the jar in to the pressure canner. A good seal was established, but should I worry about it? The jars in this batch still have beets packed firmly at the 1" headspace point, but the liquid in one jar particularly is down about 2 inches. In your opinion (not asking for promises here) toss or keep and asses at opening?
Uh, "assess" not "asses" hahaha!
Down 2 inches isn't a problem at all, and that does sometimes happen with pressure canning vegetables like that. To prevent it in the future, try tightening the rings on jars a bit more and waiting until the canner is all the way cool before removing the jars.
Safety wise, they're fine according to the national center for food preservation, so long as they're sealed and they aren't below the half way mark with liquid in the jar. Use those jars first, as anything above the liquid line will darken and oxidize over time and will degrade in quality faster.
If they did lose more than half the liquid, those should go in the fridge and be used up in a few days. If they're just down an extra inch though, and still sealed, the consensus from the experts is they're fine.
Enjoy!
Thank you!
Thank you Ashley! I was gearing up to use my pressure cooker and read in a new canning book that I should have the pressure gauge checked annually. It was my mom’s and I’ve used it for years without checking the gauge. I’m torn because I want to use it and now is the time. What are your thoughts on this?
It's definitely one of those things you're supposed to do, and I'll also admit I have not once done it with mine. In my particular case, we're at just barely over 1,000 feet in elevation, and it's a weighted gugage so I can everything at 15 pounds pressure because once you go over 1,000 feet with those you have to jump all the way up to 15 pounds. That's plenty even if we were many thousands of feet higher, so if mine is under by a small amount then it's not a big deal. (If it were under by a lot, I'd still be in trouble, but that's a pretty big error bar.)
I should get it checked, but somehow it never seems to happen. I bet that's the case with a lot of canners, so you're really not alone here.
The fact that it's your moms and it's older makes me worry a bit more than my relatively new one. I'm honestly not sure what I'd do, but I think you should trust your gut. If it makes you feel nervous, don't use it. If you have a relatively high tolerance for risk, go for it.
Hi Ashley, I’ve got tons of Aronia Berries (have 4, 5ft tall bushes) and was going to try to find out what you do with them. Can some be put in the Harvest Right? I need to buy a pressure cooker (juice). I was thinking jams or jellies. My freezer is packed! How do you store flour and how long does it last? My Zester Apple Tree is not doing well. It doesn’t have many leaves and there is a light colored fungus on the bark. I am so disappointed my Valiant grape that I thought I’d be getting grapes from this year has phylloxera and apparently there is no cure and not one grape on the 20 ft vine😔! I live in N WI. Help…Thanks, Kay
Hi Kay,
Yes, aronia can go in a harvest right, they're VERY juicy with almost no pectin, so they'll be very light little puff balls once freeze dried.
You don't need a pressure cooker for aronia juice, you can do that easily right on the stovetop. Just add a bit of water to get it started, then turn on the heat and mash with a potato masher. They'll fall apart and you can strain through cheesecloth. There's almost nothing to them structurally, and the juice yield is very high that way.
Aronia makes very good jelly, but you can also can the juice as it is.
Flour does great in 5 gallon buckets with gamma seals in large quantities, or 1/2 gallon mason jars for smaller amounts. You should freeze the flour for 3 days before storing because the freezing process kills any eggs from flour bugs that might be in it.
We've luckily not had to deal with many disease or pest issues with trees, bushes and grapes. That is definitly not my field of expertise. The only thing that kills ours is our shallow clay soils in years when we get too much rain. Somehow bugs and disease have skipped us for the most part, and I'm not complaining there!
Thank you so much, I didn’t know that I could can Aronia Juice in a water bath. How long? What can I do with the dried berries besides eating. Will 4c of berries equal 4c of juice? I am going to start with a small batch first so wondering how many berries to put in the pot? (4 half pint jars?) Also, I could not find the recipe for the cough syrup on your website? Where can I buy one of those Blickies used to pick berries, got tons. Could not find on the net. Thank you for your patience with us beginners. You are very much appreciated! K
Aronia doesn't have any official canning guidance (yet) in publications, but it's going through the final testing right now to be added to the USDA's list of acceptable canning things for commercial sale. In the meantime, the extension services are saying it's fine for home canning (just not approved for sale at markets if home canned). The juice ranges in ph from 3.8 to 4.2, which is well below the 4.6 line for safe canning. (source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5068402/)
The juice yield is going to vary, as some of the berries are much dryer than others. You'd extract the juice like you would for making jelly, take a look at my blackberry jelly recipe for guidance there: https://practicalselfreliance.com/blackberry-jelly/
If you're making jelly, the fruit has absolutely no pectin, so you'd have to use a recipe that assumes no pectin. A good place to start is my dandelion jelly recipe, which would be similar consistency: https://practicalselfreliance.com/dandelion-jelly/
According to the extension service Q&A site, the fruit can be canned whole, as juice or as jelly (source: https://ask2.extension.org/kb/faq.php?id=273812).
If you want to be extra cautious, which I would be since the testing is not officially finalized, you can add 1 tablespoon of bottled lemon juice to each pint of juice. That's what you do with things that are borderline on acidity, like elderberry juice which isn't quite acidic enough for canning (but it's close). In that case, you'd be covered even if there's a wider variation in aronia ph than perviously thought (which is possible).
Anyhow, that's what I'd suggest, juicing them like a jelly recipe with a bit of water in a pot, straining, and measuing your yield. Add 1 tbsp lemon juice per 2 cups (pint) of juice.
Sources I can see from the extension recommend processing them like you would for other types of berries, like blueberries. In that case, you'd use these recipes:
Juice: https://creativecanning.com/canning-berry-juice/
Fruit: https://practicalselfreliance.com/canning-blueberries/
Jelly: https://practicalselfreliance.com/blueberry-jelly/
I don't have yield information for you on these, as I have juiced them...but I didn't write it down sadly. If we get a good crop this year I'll write up specific recipes for this, as there's clearly not a lot of information on the internet at the moment.
Hey Ashley! I'm new here, so I don't know if you've talked about this before.
You mentioned homeschooling. I'm 25 and thinking about this for my next gen. I'd love to hear how you do this with your kiddos.
Some of my questions are:
- how do you manage soft skills like socializing/teamwork/etc outside of your family?
- How do you get them going on hard skills like math/science etc?
- How many hours do they do "school" vs adventuring and being kids?
- I'd love any other insights I wouldn't expect to think about on the front end.
Thanks!
This is so hard to answer because every single kid is so incredibly different, and I can't even imagine what it's like to be a classroom teacher and deal with all those differing needs. When/if you have kids on hand all day, it becomes apparent really quickly that each and every one is their own person, and what you think would be hard to do/teach turns out not to be the case at all often enough.
Soft skills like socializing/teamwork are the hardest for us honestly. We do play dates, beach days, play at the park, sports, gymnastics, riding lessons with a group, 4H...really anything that seems like it might work and might keep them engaged. Nothing's the perfect fit, and we're still working on finding something that is.
The "hard skills" that are traditionally looked at as tricky for most kids are pretty natural to my kids, my daughter loves high school chemistry, my son is all about multiplication/division...and they're really young. Other things you'd think would be easy are not. You never know what's going to be hard until you meet the kid.
We mostly try to incorporate "school" into everything we're doing. On car rides to the grocery store we'll do "math" time where we just bounce around and take turns on a continuous math problem.
Me: 7 + 9 =
Them: 16, divided by 2
Me: 8, times 3
Them: 24, plus 5
etc.
We're technically oriented people though, and a discussion of literature or ethics or whatever in the car would be harder than the "hard" skills.
Reading happens continuously, chemistry happens in the kitchen, physics in the yard, things like that.
I think the hardest part is avoiding what people these days label as "demand avoidance" or making mandatory school time that becomes painful or a chore, where you have kids just flat refusing to participate. Literally I'll walk to the table and start working on something, and they'll join in...rather than me saying, "It's school time, get to work!"
At least that's what's working here...right now....with these kids. Next week, who knows. It's all hard, and ever changing.
That's an awesome place to start for us. I love the gamification aspect especially. It seems like you're doing a great job of keeping curiosity alive and that's what it's about. Thanks for taking the time!
I’m in Western NY and typically would be canning to preserve the summers bounty but not solely depending on it to feed my family. I do Meals In a jar as well as pickles, pie fillings, beans, corn, tomatoes in every way you can think of, some jams and jellies and whatever else I can think of or that comes my way. I love to dehydrate fruit and veggies but would normally do a couple Qts of each. This year however I am concerned about the looming food shortages. My preservation will change to reflect the need for longer storage. Mylar bags and oxygen absorbers will store my dehydrated foods. We are buying a cow and will freeze some but a lot I will pressure can either as meals or simple as is, eg, ground beef, etc. I don’t want to depend on the freezer for obvious reasons. I have 5 gal buckets to be filled with essentials like flour, sugar, oats and rice. I would love a Harvest Right but they are so expensive, will take a long time to be delivered and I’m not sure if I’ll need it in 5 years. What am I missing, what else should I be doing ?
It sounds like you're right on track to me! Not depending on the freezer is exactly right, and lot of people learn that one the hard way. Many of the roasts are truly exceptional pressure canned, especially chuck roast.
The harvest rights are expensive for sure, and time will tell whether or not it works out. We've got a batch to start today and I plant run mine basically 24/7 all winter putting up pre-cooked meals for next summer so we don't have to heat up the house (or worry about cooking during the busy time of year) and then run it all summer with produce.
I think if food shortages do happen, they won't happen alone. If you're an electrical lineman and you don't have food for your family, you're less worried about the money you'd get going to work and more worried about reality. Things will get dropped, other services will stop, so I'd start thinking about things beyond food (once you have food buttoned up). Good luck!
I'm having a unique summer because I had foot surgery and I'm laid up. My next canning project will be prepping tomatoes to simmer in crock pots for several days to make sauce. I'd love to hear from others about ways to prep for winter, despite being limited physically. :)
That's a tricky one, especially when canning often means standing in front of a stove for many hours at a time. Last I was hurt, I took up crochet and then the time after that hand spinning, and then I tried hooked rugs. It's not directly "prepping for winter" but in many senses, learning a new sedentary task you can do on your lap is more useful in the long run than killing yourself putting things in jars when you're hurt. Take care of yourself!
I think quite a while back you mentioned you buy canning lids in bulk. I've been looking at them on Amazon (like this one: https://www.amazon.ca/Jsondudu-Split-Type-Rust-Proof-Material-Airtight/dp/B09BFW67K6/ ) and they all seem to have a bunch of one-star reviews about how they buckle or don't seal properly and the food is wasted. What's been your experience with bulk lids? Do you have a trusted brand? I can't seem to find bulk from a trusted brand like Bernardin (Canadian equivalent of Ball).
Good question. Before canning lids became scarce in 2020 I bought several full cases of canning lids. It's literally a flat with 36 boxes of ball brand canning lids, and at the time they were a great deal. Basically wholesale prices, as they could be sold by the box at a store after...since they were packed for resale by the dozen.
I actually haven't bought canning lids since, so I haven't had to deal with all the quality and availability issues that have happened since. I'm down to about half a case of each wide mouth and regular mouth, so maybe 12 boxes of each left...and I'll have to buy lids again soon, so I just started looking into this.
They do still have the "case pack" on amazon, at least for regular mouth jars, and at current prices they work out to $3.88 a box. I have no idea how that compares to current prices after inflation and such. Link here: https://www.amazon.com/Regular-Canning-Mason-Dozen-Total/dp/B00B9GD7I6
I've heard that the bulk sleeves of lids they sell on Lehmans are good quality, but I haven't used those. Searching their site just now, a single box of ball canning lids is $7, so the bulk pack I link to above might not be a bad price if that's the going rate.
I've also heard great things about the reusable lids from Harvest Guard (https://canninglids.com/shop/#selfreliance) but since I've had so many lids on hand, I haven't tried them out yet. I just put in an order with them a minute ago, given that I am close to running out. We'll see how reusable lids go!
Thank you! I will dig deeper! Canning lids don't seem too scarce here in Canada, but at about $4.50 CAD for a box of 12 lids, I'm always on the lookout for a cheaper option.
I was about to ask what you do with thimbleberries since they are pretty dry.
But saw this post about lids. I bought the Lehman's lids, a sleeve of 60, for a very good price last year. I was skeptical because they are sturdier than the ball lids. That said, they work just as well. I find you're never sure what you're going to get from Amazon.
I know you're not supposed to, but I reuse lids all the time...as long as they are free from rust. You may need to roll the edge along a work surface to smooth any pulls from an opener.
We made thimbleberry jam this year, and yes...they're very dry, and quite seedy. I actually found that a lot of the really nuanced flavor goes away when you cook them, and there are just so darn many seeds. I am going to try jelly next, hopefully that'll be better, at least for the seeds.
With our remaining crop in the fridge, I'm making thimbleberry ice cream as dry fruits actually work out really well in ice cream. Less excess moisture, so a creamier finished product...and since they're not cooked I'm hoping they'll retain their strong flavor. We'll see...
Thanks for all that! Never thought of ice cream...there are so many of those berries and we just bypass them.